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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 20, 2011 9:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Sorry. The title just came to me, and I couldn't help it.

I just came across something a tad odd: polling data on the Grateful Dead.

Apparently a Republican Deadhead on Capitol Hill commissioned a poll on GD name recognition, attitudes towards the band, fan income/political leaning, etc. Really.

OK, it doesn't actually say that Republicans prefer RatDog. But the guy who commissioned the poll says that's his favorite post-Jerry lineup ... so I've, um, extrapolated. (Flash news! One hundred percent of Republicans who expressed a preference favor RatDog over Phil and Friends!)

But it DOES say that the GD have a higher favorability rating among Americans under 65 than your average incumbent politician. And heck, that was a year ago ...

Here's the poll data:

http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/16/new-poll-investigating-legacy-of-grateful-dead-says-as-much-about-boomers-as-the-band-itself/

For a voice from the other side of the aisle, here's an old interview with Al Franken that gets into the GD a bit and is worth it for this picture alone: "I think my staff wishes Sirius didn’t have a Grateful Dead station, but it does!" (Mwaa haa haaa. Can anyone relate?)

http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/article/2008/09/25/interview-al-franken-grateful-dead-orthodontics-and-his-secret-talent.html


This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-07-21 04:50:12

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 21, 2011 7:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

This is funny , as Bob was the most vocally political on stage, most visibly disturbed by Bush ( Mickey, next to him ). Bob urges people to vote, Phil to give their organs .
Phil got on board the O man's bandwagon, but didn't do benefits for Nancy P.
And Phil says "God bless you" at the end of shows .
I am happy that politicians like the music, there is the vain hope, that this might mean something . As I have said "liberals like the Dead, conservatives NEED the Dead " . Being somewhat conservative myself, I am less inclined to say "nuke 'em" when ;listening to Dark Star ( ..but those "Tiger Meltdowns might make some frying government leader get inspired to see 1000s of beautiful glowing clouds above...better keep acid out of reach of "the button") . It is nice to believe good music makes a better person. But Hitler and Stalin had better musical taste that Roosevelt and Churchill .

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 21, 2011 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Well, dunno know about Roosevelt's and Churchill's taste, but at least they didn't ban what they didn't like. Mahler was banned by the Nazis; also anything atonal, and at least some if not all jazz. I think Stalin also banned jazz. So whatever their own taste might have been, I guess they wanted to make sure everyone shared it ...

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 21, 2011 10:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Well, I was being more than a little flip, but ho would think the non drinking, vegetarian, lover of dogs and classical music, painter , would become the monster he was ! And "Uncle Joe's " favorite piece of music was the utterly lovely, Mozart Piano Concerto #23 , and he did know who was the most important Soviet composers were ( and made sure to make their lives miserable ), I don't think Franklin would have known what was going on in contemporary music ( I'm sure Shostakovich wished Stalin didn't).
What I was saying is "good taste" in the arts, doesn't necessarily make you a good person.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 21, 2011 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Excellent news!

IE, by extension, my poor taste in all such matters allows the slim chance that I are a good persona. I am defn "gratis".

Etheral, and sublime; methinks. Poor speller though.

How did this transition to third person self analysis?

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 21, 2011 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Ack !Sorry for the weak proofreading skills;,you should see my messages before spellcheck ! Well I like dogs, and Wagner , and don't drink ( except coffee...Ah HA), but I like Slavic, French, "modernist" , and jewish composers ... and jazz . So I would have been in deep trouble with the "Corporal" and his sick fuck pals .

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 21, 2011 3:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Ha--that's my problem...I never spell ck hereabouts. And my ramblings were self-referential if that wasn't clear.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Jul 21, 2011 11:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

too much agave?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 20, 2011 9:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

They can have them...

It's probably cause they know real Dead lovers are too busy debating how many handles K-man has to be a viable voting block.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

LOL! Oh, I forgot, THAT'S the purpose of this forum ...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Rosey?

Actually, it has to b the real u cause it's so late...

My handle could easily b hacked, so b careful--u never know when I may b an alias...but, who'd really want to b me anyhoo?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Only the shadow knows .........

I like the name Llama Farm (which I just learned), but maybe the name should be changed to the Hide-and-Seek Sailor's Pub. Or the Lost Sailor's Double.

Oh sheesh. Now you're making me hijack my own thread.

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Poster: BobsShortShorts Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

My shorts are in a bunch in my arse over that.....I prefer NO party...they all have their fingers till and only care about the bankroll....

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

This reminds me of some clever bumper stickers and t-shirts from back in the day. "Garcia/Weir" election-styled stickers were sometimes seen, and I remember Mt. Rushmore with the faces of the band on shirts.

I've always felt some resentment towards the celebrity political deadheads, of which there have been many - why didn't/don't they have the courage to speak up about drug legalization and civil liberties? Tipper Gore was a famed crusader against indecency in music lyrics but also a fan of the Grateful Dead, the first mainstream rock act to put out a record with the word "fuck" in the lyrics. Did she ever comment on that?

I always wanted to find any of the celebrities who liked the GD and grill them about whether or not they would go on record supporting the legalization of psychedelics, or if they supported throwing half the world's creative artists in jail for their use. I've never had any use for any politician who supports the War on Drugs, in fact I don't even consider them "true deadheads" for that reason, not willing to accept them into my tribe if they want to lock me up for smoking a joint.

By the way, has everyone read John Perry Barlow's Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace? https://projects.eff.org/~barlow/Declaration-Final.html

Yikes, what's wrong with me, posting standard political rants, guess I better cue up something I haven't heard and listen to the music play.

This post was modified by bkidwell on 2011-07-21 05:16:21

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Were they really? What, Wharf Rat?

Actually, I'm against indecency in music lyrics, too. Of course, then you have to define "indecency," and a big part of true lyrical indecency is "painful you-gotta-be-kiddingness," and then ... well, on the one hand, banning that would get rid of most rap and pop, and it would also take care of the problem of having to hear Brent songs. But the cost would be too high; we'd lose so much of the fun of Brent bashing. And where would it leave LLR?

Btw, interesting Barlow link. I had no idea he may well have coined the notion of digital natives/digital immigrants. Such a great writer ... and then there's LLR :-)

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-07-21 05:40:44

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj6xEeBsFfI

As Kevn Kinney used to say before the encore:

Tip your bartenders, tip your friend, Tipper Gore, cook my eggs. Life is too short for cheap wine.

And does anyone actually prefer Ratdog? To what? The Spin Doctors?

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Yeah apparently Wharf Rat is the first place where you can clearly hear it. Jefferson Airplane claims that "Up against the wall, motherfucker!" is on the Volunteers album, but according to the interview with Hunter I think I'm remembering this from, "You can't actually hear those words on that record" and I can confirm for myself that I've never been able to hear it. I went on a month long road trip with a guy who pretty much only listened to Jefferson Airplane so I got to know "Volunteers" a little bit too well.

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Poster: WillCo Date: Jul 21, 2011 3:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Please remind me, someone, which show(s) had Jerry singing "some other person's crime". I think it must have been on one of the early Dick's Picks, but I haven't heard it for many years (with each Wharf Rat I listen to I wait with baited breath for the line, and then .... nah not this one).

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jul 21, 2011 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

"Yeah apparently Wharf Rat is the first place where you can clearly hear it."

Maybe it was brought to the front more when the album came out on CD, but the line "Up against the wall, motherfucker" is absolutely unmistakable around 3:27 of "We Can Be Together", the opening track on Volunteers.

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jul 21, 2011 9:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

Interesting, I can hear it when I listen to the song on Youtube, but I could never hear it on the tape my friend had back when we went on the road trip. Remastering might be involved. I found the exact Hunter quote:

"And you know what, that's the first the that the F word actually ever was used on a recording. But-the legend is that the Jefferson Airplane used it in "Up Against the Wall" and it's printed in the lyrics, I believe, but you go ahead and play that record, and see if you can hear that word. You can't hear that word. But they covered for us. The perception was that they had said it, and although as I said you can't hear it, so we were covered in a way. We could go right ahead and say it then. And there we go. We did, as I said, the first sixteen-track record, and we're the first ones to use the F word. What a claim to fame!"

- Robert Hunter, taken from 1988 David Gans interview in Conversations with the Dead, p. 282-283

This post was modified by bkidwell on 2011-07-21 16:35:09

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jul 21, 2011 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

Unfortunately my old vinyl copy is just a memory so I have no way to compare, but I agree that it could easily have been brought out with the jump to CD. It's also possible, of course, that Hunter is engaging in a little legend-spinning of his own, as this interview was nearly two decades after the fact. Like many aging sports heroes, I've noticed that the recollections of a lot of musical icons are frequently more colorful than they are accurate. Ain't hatin', just sayin'.

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Jul 21, 2011 10:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

i believe THE WHO belong to this club.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 21, 2011 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

FWIW, I have the old original release and it defn is NOT on my copy either...they did it live, but not on the version I heard "officially".

Of course, I cannot currently access this version, but this is my distinct recollection, and we even discussed that they "wimped" if you follow...in the 70s.

But, as SB points out, aging memories and all...? Mine and Hunters and Katner?

I do want to support what BKid is purporting to be the case though...

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jul 21, 2011 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

what I said is well covered in this thread

This post was modified by fenario80 on 2011-07-21 22:31:23

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 21, 2011 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

i think RH might have forgotten an even more telling line from 'We Can Be Together', earlier in the song:

We are all outlaws in the eyes of America
In order to survive we steal cheat lie forge FUCK hide and deal

and i defintely remember hearing it on my vinyl (purchased early '80s); JA more than any other group from that place and time, pushed the envelope when it came to lyrics

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Poster: vapors Date: Jul 21, 2011 12:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wharf Rat, Jefferson Airplane, other gentlemen's crimes

For what it’s worth...
From wiki: "We Can Be Together" is the B-side of the "Volunteers" 45 and the first track on Volunteers. The song's music and lyrics were written by Paul Kantner. Kantner was inspired by the Black Panther Party's use of the phrase "Up against the wall, motherfucker" and included it in the chorus.[1] The Airplane performed "We Can Be Together" uncensored on The Dick Cavett Show on August 19, 1969.
While the word "motherfucker" was indeed sung and not censored on the 45, it was mixed lower in the mix as compared to the LP mix, which had no volume manipulation and presented the song "un-buried".

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 21, 2011 3:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arb, Fenario & Dan

Ah, perhaps it was on the basis of the 45, that would've been rec'ing airtime in my youth, upon which we formed our "they wimped!" or some such? I searched and realize I do not own the orig album or 45, but may have lost them over the yrs...

In any case, I still have the distinct memory (but this counts for less and less these days) of my thinking at the time "it's NOT on this ONE" but from what folks have chimed in with, my particular "one", may have been only one of a handful...I defn agree things might have been changed over the yrs as well.

Recall the Moby Grape album with the obvious "finger" on the cover (the hand on the washboard for those that know of what I speak) which was quickly removed after the initial release (my brothers proudly displayed both album and a poster, with finger, prior to the switch-a-roo...). Don't have that one anymore either.

Damn.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 21, 2011 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arb, Fenario & Dan

hmm, perhaps as vapors posted below, you recall the 45, not the LP? i DO have the original pressing of Volunteers, and just listened right now, and it's very audible, both the lyric that i posted above, and the 'up against the wall, motherfuckers'

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jul 22, 2011 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arb, Fenario & Dan

Cool; they deserve the credit then, as you note.

Seems somewhat naive looking back on it all these days, but I recall my brothers wearing Blk Panther pins (showed the panther, and said "honorary member" or some such). Not unlike the DEAD's initial fascination with Hell's Angels I suppose. And just generic "against the Man" endorsements for any and all organized groups, regardless of subsequent track records vis-a-vis human rights, blah, blah, blah.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jul 22, 2011 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arb, Fenario & Dan

B., just to add add'l info, i pulled out the album insert this morning, with the printed lyrics, and interestingly enough, the 'FUCK' word is CENSORED on the printed lyrics, rendered thus:

"In order to survive we steal lie forge FRED hide and deal"

"Up against the wall FRED"

poor Fred

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jul 21, 2011 9:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

LLR was SUCH a better song before Bobby started lacing his end-rap with f-bombs. I draw the line on that song at about 1981 just to avoid them; of course, I feel the same way about Estimated - when the high-pitched squealing starts, I'm outta there

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jul 21, 2011 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Politicians must have a lot of free time on their hands to do polls about post Garcia incarnations.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Jul 21, 2011 8:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Like father, like son.

Re: AR question, Can anyone relate [to attitudes towards the band, fan income/political leaning, etc.]?
GD were Hippies! Their political leanings issue was settled in Alaska on June 21, 1980.

Billy for President rap
billy_for_president.jpg
"A vote for Billy Kreutzmann is a vote for nature in the streets."

Re: bkidwell question, Did [Tipper] ever comment on [saying fuck on a record]?
We have John Hartford performing at the 1970 Philly Folk Festival - breaking the censorship barrier.

Smoke, Shit, and Fuck song
c981196fr1x.jpg

So there's your ticket: Billy K for President, and John Hartford for VP. At the 1st Marin County Bluegrass Festival, on April 28, 1974, John Hartford performs his famous Steam Powered Aereoplane song with Vassar Clements, Norman Blake, and Tut Taylor. John's timeless intro: "It goes about 35 or 40 mph thru the air. It's real laid back, and it's powered by steam. People are laying out on the wing in lawn chairs smokin' dope and waving at the people down in the street." Jerry Garcia performs with all these players and other bands at this festival. Jerry Moore's copy of the SBD reels from this Marin Festival are in circulation.

John Hartford's aereoplane is your campaign's Bus. Steam Powered Aereoplane has been covered by dozens of bands for decades. Here's String Cheese Incident, with Sam Bush sitting in, at Merlefest 2000: Steam Powered Aereoplane > Jam > Birdland

The Grateful Dead was a Hippie band

gd-logo-rose.gif
gd-boys-roses.gif


This post was modified by dead-head_Monte on 2011-07-21 15:18:00

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jul 21, 2011 6:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

WTF is the Daily Caller?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 21, 2011 7:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Why, a website for and by Deadhead Republicans, of course!

(At any rate, it was founded by Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel, former chief policy adviser to Cheney and also, as it happens, Carlson's old college roommate. And show-going pal? Well, guilt by association, anyway ... but it's yet another DC politico-blogo-site.)

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Poster: Hashjihad Date: Jul 20, 2011 10:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Republicans Prefer RatDog

Because Ratdog would always play in smaller venues, and Repubs don't liking dancing next to dirty hippies. Last bunch of those shows I went to was in 08 Winter, Saw Ratdog at Lebanon Opera House, Week after saw Phil at Glens Falls Civic Center. I mean the Phil shows were always bigger and more like the Furthur scene, and Ratdog was always more Jazzier and Countrier; which the latter is not a word but should be.

I like Phil better, and I am pretty liberal, so... I do like that Bobby would play tons of acoustic though...